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34 Replies Last post: Jun 11, 2005 2:31 AM by Nobody   Go to original post 1 2 3 Previous Next
Click to view whitedog's profile Enthusiast 1,039 posts since
Aug 9, 2004
30. Jun 9, 2005 7:11 AM in response to: Nobody
Re: DEVELOPERS WILL SELL TO HUNDREDS OF MILLIONS
MacWorldUser, have you ever installed or used Linux? I thought not. Its a geeks only OS and, like Unix, well suited to enterprise server applications and all but useless to the average home and small business computer user.

Youve been riding this hobbyhorse for a free Mac OS to run on any Windows PC on several forums in the past few days. You seem utterly oblivious to the real world economics involved. I suggest you take note of the fact that absolutely no one has bought into your ideas and take the hint - no personal offense intended - that these ideas are nonsense. No one in their right mind wants Apple to be more like Microsoft.

Cseeman, no one here can presume to tell you whats best for your business. But if you look at Intels current chip lineup, its clear that the first Macs to get Intel processors will be laptops and the low-end desktops currently using G4 chips - the Mac mini and the eMac. High-end, high performance Macs, like the dual G5 you have been looking at, will be the last to be replaced because they will need a 64 bit processor and Intels current 64 bit chips are not yet state of the art.

That means that if you get a G5 now it will be at least two and a half years before theres an Intel Mac to compete with it. And, chances are you would not want to get a first generation Intel Mac anyway, so that adds six months to a year, or more, to your replacement cycle.

The fact Final Cut Pro has had problems, as you say, with previous changes in the Mac OS, QuickTime and various hardware evolutions should actually weigh in favor of buying now. Any immediate changes in FCP will be to improve compatibility with current hardware and software. The likelihood that FCP, along with other high-end apps, may encounter difficulties transitioning to Intel Macs is just one more reason to buy now. You wont want to make your move while FCP is having growing pains two years down the line. If you upgrade sooner rather than later, you can sit pat comfortably getting your work done on a G5 dual with a monster graphics card and wait out the transition year - or years. The productivity gains you will experience with a new G5 should justify the expense, especially if you balance them against the productivity gains you wont have for three or four years if you wait for Intel Macs and compatible software to mature and stabilize.

Of course, once Macs come with high power Intel processors, you will want to move up again. By that time, I can picture a dual-core, dual processor 5 GHz 64 bit Intel processor that will take video editing efficiency up another order of magnitude. Imagine what FCP could do with those resources. But it will be at least four years before the wrinkles are ironed out and its a viable alternative.


Don't anthropomorphize computers - They hate that.
Click to view cseeman's profile New Member 140 posts since
Dec 6, 2004
31. Jun 9, 2005 8:55 AM in response to: whitedog
Re: DEVELOPERS WILL SELL TO HUNDREDS OF MILLIONS
Whitedog, I came to similar conclusions on much of what you say, before I made my first post in this thread. Laptops will be first and the high end towers will be last to changeover.

Certainly the increase in productivity a Dual G5 offers, outweighs waiting about 2 years (range of 18-30 months depending on how Apple moves on this).

I still think developers dropping PPC support will happen sooner rather than later especially those video/graphics based apps that use Altivec.

I do think the current crop of Dual G5s will have a shorter lifespan though. It's only my hunch though but neither Apple (and Jobs keynote/sales pitch) nor the develpers are currently convincing me otherwise.

My Dual 800 G4 purchased in 2001, rund FCP5 just fine 4 years after I bought it, with at least a year or longer, it'll be running what should remain the current version of FCP, likely to or through 2006. That's 5 years of current version compatibility. I DO NOT THINK a Dual G5 purchased today, will be able to run the then current version of FCP in 2009 or 2010 (4-5 year period). Again just my hunch, but this is what I mean by a newly purchased G5 having a shorter compatible life span.

Instead of buying a Dual 2.7, I have to look at a Dual 2.3, and older Dual 2.5 or even a Dual 2.0 (given lack of PCI-X and only 4 memory slots) since this computer will likely have to be replaced sooner and, rather than being relagated to slower 2nd work station, I'd be forced to by TWO Intel Macs or get by with just one. I hope this makes the business decisons I, and other have to make. In addition, those who purchased Dual G5s 2003-2004, who MIGHT upgrade in 2006, probably won't now. This is why Mac Desktop sales will fall dramatically in the next two years.

Put it another way, buying a Dual G5 is still better than not buying one for a business using a Dual G4 and has the demand for the productivity increase but the actual long term VALUE of such purchase has, my hunch, declined dramatically.

Apple could do things to counter the likely drop in desktop sales. They could lower the price on the current models . . . but they certainly have many reasons NOT to do that. Certainly cutting production accounting for lower demand can decrease the lose for them and may make more sense than cutting price to keep up demand but have a much smaller profit margin per unit.

I do not believe the current Dual G5 will stay compatible with future releases as long as my Dual G4. Many people will delay purchase or, if buying, will spend less, seeing the purchase as shorter term value than before.

Apple may or may not want to change pricing, offer something or whatever to change the perception (real or imagined . . . the developers may well support PPC through 2009). I wish they would, at least, convince me a Dual G5 will be as valuable as my Dual G4 has been. In any case, I'll likely spend less, thousands of others will spend less or simply hold off for two years.
Click to view n8mac's profile New Member 114 posts since
Oct 15, 2003
32. Jun 9, 2005 10:39 AM in response to: MW Forums
Altivec
I don't know anymore about processors than what is stated on these boards, so excuse the ignorance, but I have a question. Why can't Apple work with Intel to put Altivec on a pentium? Is there a technical hurtle?
Click to view Steve_S's profile Enthusiast 1,100 posts since
Sep 9, 2004
33. Jun 9, 2005 11:04 AM in response to: jmincey
Re: WWDC: Developers unfazed by Intel switch
In reply to:<hr />
Also, I'm sure the developer of CodeWarrior is not thrilled with this transition to Intel because it effectively kills its products outright. And the developers who make extensive use of Altivec essentially have to rewrite all their code --

<hr />


A couple things... the developer of CodeWarrior stopped caring about it after they sold it to Motorola. Codewarrior used to have the ability to provide both PPC and x86 binaries. Apple is providing developers with a solution that they can control. Motorola is free to offer their customers a similar solution, but I don't really see that they have the incentive to do so. Motorola basically bought Codewarrior as a development platform for their chips, not necessarily to support Macs. Motorola has done nothing over the past 2 years to support and optimize for the G5. Let's face it, as far as Macs were concerned, Codewarrior saved Apple's bacon 10 years ago, however, after being sold to Motorola, their relevance to the Mac market has been severely marginalized.

Though I haven't played around much with altivec C extensions in xcode, it would appear as though it is supported. Likewise, I don't see a complete rewrite being necessary by moving to xcode.

http://devworld.apple.com/documentation/DeveloperTools/Conceptual/XcodeUserGuide21/Contents/Resources/en.lproj/BuildSettingTitles/chapter_53_section_3.html


Steve
Click to view Nobody's profile New Member 58,347 posts since
Oct 18, 2007
34. Jun 11, 2005 2:31 AM in response to: MW Forums
Re: APPLE PURCHASED BY INTEL - MAC OS X FOR ANY PC
Explained here:

http://www.pbs.org/cringely/pulpit/pulpit20050609.html

The end of Windows and Linux.