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44 Replies Last post: Jul 13, 2005 8:40 AM by LeopardWoman   Go to original post 1 2 3 Previous Next
Click to view jnmorrison's profile New Member 21 posts since
Sep 29, 2004
15. Jun 14, 2005 3:01 PM in response to: OM_user
Re: Quark talks open standards, InDesign competition
Way back when Quark was at version 3.32, I heard a saying: Quark is a company that everyone hates that makes a piece of software that everyone loves. Of course, this was in the days when PageMaker (AKA: SlaveMaker) was it's only real competition. Jump to present day. Adobe InDesign is a very nice piece of software that does everything I've ever used Quark for and so much more. Quark 6 is basically Quark 4 running on OS X, add in a few minor, non-useful features (Quark layers are and always have been a joke).

Everyone still hates Quark the company, because it treats it's customers like crap. Don't believe me...call them up and tell them you need to re-install on a new computer and see if they don't treat you like you are stealing. Adobe is an okay company. I can't think of anything good to say about them, but nothing much bad comes to mind either. Quark...crappy company with good software. Adobe...acceptable company with great software. Which would you prefer?

Company politics and arm-bending sales techniques will eventually fail, and when it does we'll see which software people prefer if they are allowed to choose.
Click to view lhudd's profile Member 323 posts since
Nov 16, 2004
16. Jun 14, 2005 3:56 PM in response to: rgarbin
Re: Quark talks open standards, InDesign competition
"I loved the part about Quark concentrating on making "good software" rather than marketing. Man, these guys have a great sense of humor. "

probably true... If I have to look at Kimberly the Designer one more time with her censored-eating smirk and dumb-ass blue flower in her hair, i might just kill sombody. What a crappy ad campaign... put an ugly chick with a "i'm better than your whole family" smirk on her face in a spread talking about a dental form she created with Quark. Great... I suppose she can create a form for a dermotologist next so she can get that mole removed. Or maybe she can... aww.. nevermind.
Click to view macman_nz's profile New Member 4 posts since
Sep 2, 2004
17. Jun 14, 2005 4:27 PM in response to: MW Forums
Re: Quark talks open standards, InDesign competiti
Qwak is dead, long live InDesign..
ID has done most of that for ages now, and Qwak is only just catching up? pfft.. and how much does it still cost? Nearly the price of the CS suite, isn't it..?? give it up.
Something Qwak will never get the hang of, without 3rd party plug-ins - native stuff!! Stick a PSD file in Qwak etc, ain't so hot now, huh? I stopped using that crap years ago and never been back.
Click to view midlantica's profile New Member 20 posts since
Sep 16, 2004
18. Jun 14, 2005 4:59 PM in response to: MW Forums
Quark bites, end the madness.
I'm not going to take it anymore... Now... Will Adobe please build the perfect converter of Quark 4, 5 and 6 and then we can all move on. And will Adobe please get it's act together and not botch up Dreamweaver and Fireworks. For crying out loud, get hip with symbols! I'll caveat that by saying I haven't seen much of the new Adobe CS 2 stuff, maybe they've finally got symbols. Adobe, we web people want a lightweight web-only app like Fireworks; don't try to make a ImageReady for Illustrator which will handle all the ex-Fireworks stuff. Just make Fireworks Adobe CS compatible.

Rant, I'm out.
Click to view themacuser's profile New Member 1 posts since
Jun 14, 2005
19. Jun 14, 2005 6:07 PM in response to: MW Forums
Re: Quark talks open standards, InDesign etc.
It appears as though the posts here are an accurate reflection of reality -- not tainted by ZD advertising dollars (and thats good). QuarkXPress has always invested more time & energy in developing protection for their sorry code than they have in making the user-experience better, more intuitive or helpful. They have consistantly made decisions to ensure that QuarkXPress is known for non-service, non-support and extremely unfriendly experiences. I was tickled tremendously when Adobe released the v.2 of InDesign and made it useful in a prepress environment and competitive in design environments... while Quark fell asleep at the OS X wheel, and then Quark publicly blamed Apple for not supplying them with source code quickly enough to create a product. PLEASE! Good riddance QXP -- you will not be missed and may others learn from your big-headed business model. Users make the rules for developers to follow, not the other way around. Now that Adobe has the Macromedia product line its all academic. Goodnight, Quark!
Click to view SGP_MacUser's profile New Member 43 posts since
Mar 22, 2005
20. Jun 14, 2005 7:57 PM in response to: MW Forums
Wake Up to Customers' Needs
Quark really fulfills publishing needs technically... but fails largely at customers' needs.

Quark's features are great and I love them. However, when it comes to handling customers, they are not at hand to make things easier. The policies are sometimes painful, very painful.

I hope a new CEO would lend a listening ear to its past customers, big and small, home and remote (CJK customers), etc. would be heard. Issues would be addressed.

I look forward to that happy Quark users and owners which wasn't.
Click to view crc's profile New Member 4 posts since
Jun 6, 2005
21. Jun 14, 2005 9:08 PM in response to: MW Forums
Re: Quark talks open standards, InDesign competition
NEWSFLASH!

Quark annonces that they will release an Intel version of X-press for the Mac by 2010.
Click to view simpl3x's profile New Member 1 posts since
Jan 14, 2005
22. Jun 14, 2005 10:20 PM in response to: MW Forums
Marketing
Somebody asked, I wonder what Quark can do to get on the Mac users good side? Perhaps it would start with, not telling us to switch to Windows!

Quark say that designing is fast in Quark! But InDesign is slower to use--Yes, unfortunately it is!--because of the many options available. I didn't have to wait 6 versions for layers. Transparency! I like that a lot. Export to PDF--PDF workflows... It's what all the pros are using Quark!--cleanly! Yes, we do know that product authorization is a necessity, but why my friend is it such a pain in the ass? And, you just couldn't throw in the laptop installation? I have about "this" much sympathy for Quark.

The newtwork effect is in progress. Everybody is in the process of switching... whether they know it or not. Just as with PageMaker, there will be plenty of people who take the files, but you will be looked down upon. "The pros use InDesign."

Good luck Quark! Thank goodness I won't need to do another installation!
Click to view DocOrlando's profile New Member 6 posts since
Apr 30, 2004
23. Jun 15, 2005 4:03 AM in response to: simpl3x
It's all kludgeware
Ooooh! Creating Quark's own native markup language! Ooooh! Exporting content cross-application DOM schema garble PPML thingme XPathogenic blarg Turpin.

WE DON'T NEED A WYSWYG WEB EDITOR.
WE DON'T NEED RELATIONAL DATABASE FUNCTIONALITY VOODOO.

WE WANT A CLEAN LAYOUT PROGRAM.
THAT'S ALL WE'VE EVER WANTED.

Quark is bloatware. Kludgeware. Crammed with so much crap in order to serve so many niches that it ends up being impotent, a victim of its own obesity.

The company, and the app, needs an enema.
Click to view skbrn16's profile New Member 48 posts since
Feb 15, 2005
24. Jun 15, 2005 5:14 AM in response to: lhudd
Re: Quark talks open standards, InDesign competition
OH man, I agree with you 100%! That ad campaign is terrible. Annoying smirk, body copy that (seems) to imply that it's great to spend $1000 on software to design a dental form. A model that apparently is supposed to appeal to the 19 to twenty-somethings with her psuedo-hip appearance...it just doesn't say anything good about the product at all. Stupid, just stupid.
Click to view Bilbo63's profile New Member 1 posts since
May 30, 2005
25. Jun 15, 2005 5:33 AM in response to: DocOrlando
Who would want Glen's job... I mean Really.
Who would want Glen Turpins's job? I have to hand it to him, he's trying. He should look for a new job because try as he might, he is fighting a losing battle.

Quark is circling the bowl.
Click to view whitedog's profile Enthusiast 961 posts since
Aug 9, 2004
26. Jun 15, 2005 5:56 AM in response to: MW Forums
Re: Quark talks open standards, InDesign competition
Quark hired a CEO not too long ago who was trying to make it a more customer friendly business. Last week they fired him. So much for improving customer relations.

Quark XPress and Adobe InDesign seem to be moving in different directions. The last few versions of Quark have focused on corporate users where a cooperative, integrated and flexible workflow is important. Version 7 apparently will continue that trend. Improvements to the UI have been non-existant - Quark 6.5 in OS X looks just like Quark 4 in OS 8x. And, apparently, to continue to encourage expensive third-party plug-in developers, they have skimped on feature improvements. For example, unless you buy a plug-in, you still have to set bleeds and slugs by hand. InDesign integrates those features into the document set-up process - where they belong.

In reply to:<hr />
The structure of the QuarkXPress project is defined according to W3C DOM and XPath specifications. DOM makes all the content of a QuarkXPress project available as XML, which allows any application that understands the schema of a QuarkXPress project to access the QuarkXPress data and process it.

<hr />


Of course, they never mention what applications actually understand the QuarkXPress schema, which suggest to me such applications are few and far between. You'd think if there was anything to brag about they'd do a little name dropping.

Meanwhile, I'm glad to hear I'm not the only one who has stability problems with Xpress. Since upgrading to 6.5, Collect For Output invariably crashes the program. So I have to do it manually. With more than a few fonts and images this work-around is not feasible. Rather than spend countless hours troubleshooting the problem I have moved almost exclusively to InDesign.

Speaking of InDesign, it has, naturally enough, been moving toward seamless integration with other Adobe applications. CS 2 continues this trend in a big way. Personally, this is far more valuable than an XML workflow. Anyone who uses a page layout program to build web pages, or a database, needs their head examined, anyway. Of course, now that Adobe has acquired Macromedia, the possibilities do multiply.

Still, these differences in focus for XPress and InDesign do begin to distinguish the programs. For certain environments no doubt XPress is a better choice. For others, it's InDesign. The areas of overlap are decreasing, which may be a good thing for both applications in the long run.

The funniest part of Mr. Turpin's remarks, for me, was where he criticizes Adobe's advertising techniques and then proceeds to say Quark will soon be imitating them. Though it may have nothing to do with the quality of the product, as far as advertising is concerned apparently what they are learning how to do is talk out of both sides of their mouth at the same time. While doing better BS may have a role in marketing a product, I don't see it adding value to the product itself. As others here have observed, most of what Turpin says is no more than wishful thinking. And none of it relates to what Mac users in particular really want from Quark.

Of course, Windows users are inured to a lousy UI so Quark fits right in. On the Mac, though, XPress continues to stand out like a sore thumb. Since Turpin said nothing about an improved user interface for Quark 7, they obviously still don't get it.

In respect to program activation, none of my friends who have upgraded to CS 2 have complained about it. I had my own nightmare experience with XPress 6, so it would seem that Adobe figured out how to protect their product from piracy without making their customers miserable. I won't hold my breath for Quark to do the same.


Don't anthropomorphize computers - They hate that.
Click to view djacopille's profile New Member 15 posts since
Mar 17, 2005
27. Jun 15, 2005 6:48 AM in response to: MW Forums
Re: Quark talks open standards, InDesign competition
While it seems that Quark has been getting a little better as a company lately I cannot forget the years of torture this company has dished out, and still dishes out in the form of XPress 6.5. I thought the new emphasis on "collaboration" was rather humorous. You still can't go cross platform from Quark on a PC to Quark on a Mac if you have graphics linked externally - Quark doesn't used a universal path format (stupid) and they don't allow relative links or allow embedding of graphics (like logos that don't change). The result - every time you "collaborate" cross platform you've got to repair all the graphics links. Will this be fixed in 7? It's Quark we're talking about! I'm hoping it will be fixed by v11 or 12 when the motto will be "collaboration - and this time we really mean it!".
Click to view dylmonster's profile New Member 19 posts since
Sep 26, 2004
28. Jun 15, 2005 9:14 AM in response to: djacopille
Re: Quark talks open standards, InDesign competition
I'm just smiling... that's all. Sitting here and smiling as I think about our 300+ ad firm switching to InDesign later this year. Hear that, Quark?. That means about 150 licenses that won't get renewed. Good riddance.

Click to view ruthohare's profile New Member 12 posts since
Mar 21, 2005
29. Jun 15, 2005 12:29 PM in response to: rgarbin
Re: Quark talks open standards, InDesign competiti
In reply to:<hr />
I loved the part about Quark concentrating on making "good software" rather than marketing. Man, these guys have a great sense of humor.

<hr />


Indeed! If what we have now just WORKED I might not hate them, but no, it's buggy as all get out and do they release fixes? Do they heck! They don't even admit that the bugs exist and good luck calling tech support! I don't see wasting any more money on them, we only went to version 6 because of OSX, 4.41 worked fine. 6.5 managed to introduce new bugs so we went back to 6.1. Roll on inDesign!

Quark, rotten company, even worse software.