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12 Replies Last post: May 11, 2006 8:18 PM by RichardBronosky  
Click to view MW Forums's profile New Member 12,220 posts since
Aug 2, 2004
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May 11, 2006 7:20 AM

Adobe aims to ease AJAX programming

Adobe releases Spry, a new technolgy for Dreamweaver to make AJAX programming easier. more
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Click to view leicaman's profile Enthusiast 1,078 posts since
Dec 4, 2003
1. May 11, 2006 7:49 AM in response to: MW Forums
Re: Adobe aims to ease AJAX programming
Well, I guess we can all assume from this that Adobe is planning to abandon GoLive, since the emphasis here is on Dreamweaver, and they don't even pretend to even think of GoLive.

I certainly hope that they move some of the best features of GoLive into Dramweaver. Such as InDesign's "Package for GoLive." And some of the things I've always liked about GoLive - such as fewer crashes. Last time I tried to use Dreamweaver it crashed multiple times per hour.


--
Eric

"I wrote an ad for Apple Computer: 'Macintosh - We might not get everything right, but at least we knew the century was going to end." - Douglas Adams

Click to view sparky67's profile New Member 148 posts since
Dec 10, 2005
2. May 11, 2006 8:35 AM in response to: leicaman
Re: Adobe aims to ease AJAX programming
I can't comment on Dreamweaver's stability since I haven't tried it.

However, GoLive has its issues. Run it for a few hours of intense work and watch it lock-up. I'm a long time GoLive user and I've just watched it get worse and worse from version 4 up to CS2. Bugs too numerous to mention. I can't trust it. I have to proof all the code by hand ... sometimes it writes garbage, and sometimes it deletes stuff in layout but leaves the corresponding content in the code. I certainly can't trust it with Javascript so I write my own implementing "tricks" that bypass GoLive's desires to re-write it all the time.

I can't think of one bug in PhotoShop or ImageReady yet I've found dozens in GoLive. It's a dog too. Funny how GoLive seems to run about 10 times slower than PhotoShop/ImageReady on the same processor. Spinning cursors galore.

Don't get me wrong, it has its pluses and it's still my editor of choice. But Adobe needs to do either a total GoLive rewrite, which seems unlikely at this point. Or make some hybrid/new creation that "looks" like GoLive but functions better- whatever they name it, it needs to work as well as the other parts of the Creative Suite.

Remember the old days with Adobe PageMill? LOL - The very first version of Adobe GoLive in OS 9 ran very well, kicked PageMill in the behind, and yet it was all downhill from there.

Change is welcome and I really hope that Adobe does a better job with this acquisition.
Click to view ronincali3002's profile New Member 136 posts since
Sep 30, 2004
3. May 11, 2006 8:41 AM in response to: sparky67
Re: Adobe aims to ease AJAX programming
I remember PageMill. I did web pages for my school while I was in college, and my boss bought it for me to use. Time sure has flown by. That was what, 1995 or so?
Click to view pulcinella's profile New Member 6 posts since
Oct 18, 2005
4. May 11, 2006 8:50 AM in response to: leicaman
Re: Adobe aims to ease AJAX programming
When Dreamweaver 8 came out, I forced myself to use it rather than GoLive - which has been serving me very well for the previous 7 years or so.

Even though I had been staunchly pro-GoLive prior to this changeover, I soon found that Dreamweaver is extremely good. I now prefer working in Dreamweaver and keep a copy of GoLive for the few things it is better at. GoLive has a great feature which allows to you see which files in the site have orphan links. Whilst Dreamweaver also has the ability to identify orphan links, it is much easier to use in GoLive. GoLive also has a nifty feature that allows you to see which are the incoming and outgoing links to the file of interest. Both these features make it easier when changing a site and replacing content with new content.

Other than that, I don't use GoLive anymore.

What I hope is that Dreamweaver doesn't start to produce bloated code.

It's recent update to 8.0.2 resulted in a very annoying pop up window on every page that is opened that has Flash content. It took some time to find out how to stop this pop up window from launching. Most methods to embed Flash content don't pass XHTML Strict validators, hence I use a recommended method from the A List Apart website, which works great. I'm in no particular rush to change this method until a similar better method is proposed.

Back in the days of rollover graphics, I used behaviours in GoLive and found that it built up a massive behaviour library script file that was 50-60kb. It was ridiculously bloated code and so, again, I used a friend's 1kb script that did rollovers much more efficiently.

I hope Adobe bears in mind that it is better to produce clean, accessible code than overkill bloat code when it updates Dreamweaver.

If you are moving over to Dreamweaver, keep in mind that the Assets window hogs the processor if the wrong tab is selected. I was surprised how sluggish Dreamweaver was when I first used it. So I now minimise the Assets window and never use it - btw I'm on a G5 2GHz Dual with 3GB RAM & 360GB HD so speed, memory & hard drive space shouldn't be an issue!
Click to view sparky67's profile New Member 148 posts since
Dec 10, 2005
5. May 11, 2006 8:46 AM in response to: ronincali3002
Re: Adobe aims to ease AJAX programming
I believe Adobe's switch to GoLive was sometime around '99.
Click to view ndelc's profile New Member 138 posts since
Aug 30, 2004
6. May 11, 2006 8:55 AM in response to: leicaman
Re: Adobe aims to ease AJAX programming
Yeah, they didn't really leave it as much of a question, did they? I think this sentence sums it up, "The framework can be used with Dreamweaver or any other Web authoring tool, according to Adobe." Umm, like your own GoLive?

Well, I really hope they take the best features of both and create something better than either, with a more CS-like interface. If they mix Dreamweaver with Golive, and then Freehand with Illustrator, they can introduce two new apps in CS3: Adobe Dreamliver, and Adobe Frustrator!
Click to view pulcinella's profile New Member 6 posts since
Oct 18, 2005
7. May 11, 2006 8:55 AM in response to: sparky67
Re: Adobe aims to ease AJAX programming
Quite right, the first version I bought for my own use was the day Adobe GoLive came out in 1999. Prior to that it was called GoLive Cyberstudio, if I remember correctly.
Click to view hayesk's profile Member 677 posts since
Aug 7, 2004
8. May 11, 2006 9:09 AM in response to: pulcinella
Re: Adobe aims to ease AJAX programming
Correct. Adobe bought the company that made this app - it was much better than PageMill. Unfortunately, they had a light version of GoLive that was priced competitively with PageMill. Adobe discontinued that version.
Click to view tomtom's profile Member 886 posts since
Jan 6, 2006
9. May 11, 2006 9:19 AM in response to: leicaman
Re: Adobe aims to ease AJAX programming
All of he Studio 8 products are stable in regards to not crashing.

In particular, I use Dreamweaver for a site with approaching 9,000 pages and it works very well, including opening folders and scrolling through the file lists. This was a dog with MX.

I use an original G5 iMac 20 most of the time.
Click to view joshuawait's profile New Member 80 posts since
Feb 19, 2004
10. May 11, 2006 10:34 AM in response to: MW Forums
It's fabulous to see a AJAX for Dreamweaver
I have been developing my own effective, but somewhat crude, AJAX implementation.

I haven't adopted prototype or any other framework because I have no idea of knowing which framework will come out on top or which one will receive the most energy for development.

Adobe's demo of their new framework is intriguing. While I often hand code my own pages, I would love to speed up development by handing over the AJAX portion to a well thought out framework.

I say Adobe is moving in the right direction. Let's hope the framework and related documentation is solid.


http://www.bluerivers.org
Click to view bkemper's profile New Member 65 posts since
Nov 21, 2004
11. May 11, 2006 6:44 PM in response to: leicaman
Re: Adobe aims to ease AJAX programming
I also noticed the mention of DreamWeaver but no mention of GoLive. A bit distressing, if you read into it to mean that GoLive's days are numbered, which I did too. I wish they would fix GoLive's problems rather than jettisoning it. Such as its speed, and its inability to do anything while it is a background app (I have gone away to lunch and returned to see that it had made almost no progress in updating the site). But I do like its interface.

Anyway, it is possible that the DreamWeaver unit is just operating separately from the GoLive unit, in different buildings, where they don't talk to each other, and that it was the DreamWeaver unit that wrote the press release.

I tend to use GoLive more for site management than page design (I am mostly modifying and adding to an existing site). I do the page design and editing mostly in BBEdit. I learned long ago that GoLive could not write compact JavaScript and that you really have to keep an eye on what it does to HTML.
Click to view RichardBronosky's profile Member 177 posts since
Jul 26, 2005
12. May 11, 2006 8:18 PM in response to: ndelc
Freehand + Illustrator = Frustrator! HA!
In reply to:<hr />
Well, I really hope they take the best features of both and create something better than either, with a more CS-like interface. If they mix Dreamweaver with Golive, and then Freehand with Illustrator, they can introduce two new apps in CS3: Adobe Dreamliver, and Adobe Frustrator!

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Brilliant!