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59 Replies Last post: Oct 7, 2006 1:53 PM by nelson92   Go to original post 1 2 3 4 Previous Next
Click to view Nobody's profile New Member 58,347 posts since
Oct 18, 2007
30. Sep 30, 2006 9:07 AM in response to: Grapho
Re: Mac OS X v10.4.8 improves networking, Finder
A similar situation existed when PPC chips were first used. Your assumption that a carefully designed installer cannot successfully distinguish between multiple configurations and install only those files that are needed for the specific configuration in question, may well be an overly simplified view.

Generally speaking, I agree with the overall premise of the previous poster. Often, problems are encountered by users who have tweaked the OS/finder behavior by a variety of ways that are not normally part of Apple's doing.

I tend to repair disk and permissions (the usual drill ) before and after every major update and I have not had any problems updating for years on all of my machines; I do not consider it to be due to unusually good luck!
Click to view PSM's profile New Member 105 posts since
Aug 31, 2004
31. Sep 30, 2006 9:47 AM in response to: nevrozel
Re: Mac OS X v10.4.8 improves networking, Finder
I'm usually one of those people to install updates right away, just because I like tinkering, and always want to be on the bleeding edge, but I also know when to say "no." This is one of those times. I'm currently stage managing a new musical and my Powerbook is running the video projections for it on Keynote. I find myself offering my services for this kind of thing a lot, and it always makes me much more cautious about what goes on my Mac. Just an alert window popping up unexpectedly at the wrong time could ruin the show, so I like to have plenty of time to shake things out after an update. When I saw the Keynote update posted yesterday, I said, "no way." Even more so with an OS update, even though I'm rather intrigued about some of the things it's said to improve. Today is our last performance, I can tinker all I want after that.

The only really bad update I can remember getting (aside from one I was lucky to have not had time to install until after it was recalled by Apple) was a few years ago, I think it was 10.2.4, where every time you turned the computer on it would reset the date to December 31, 1969. I still have a number of e-mail messages time-stamped from 1969 or 1970 because of that.
Click to view Trekkie's profile New Member 5 posts since
Feb 11, 2005
32. Sep 30, 2006 11:24 AM in response to: MW Forums
Re: Mac OS X v10.4.8 improves networking, Finder
Just an FYI on my experience with a Mac Pro.

First reboot went fine, second reboot I waited 20 min before turning it off. I unhooked the firewire drives and the USB hub from the ACD 23", and it booted fine, plugged them back in and everything was ok.
Click to view d00d's profile Macworld Editorial 12,136 posts since
Apr 24, 2001
33. Sep 30, 2006 1:46 PM in response to: hautster
Re: Mac OS X v10.4.8 improves networking, Finder
Ditto Hautster. My family has been blessed with 5 lemons. I should play the lottery.
Click to view richsim's profile New Member 2 posts since
Jul 28, 2006
34. Sep 30, 2006 1:59 PM in response to: veggiedude
Re: Broadband is now 4 times faster???
My Comcast download connection speed on my MacBook is unchanged at about 6 MB/s. However, I do notice an improvement in Web performance. In the past, there was a noticeable delay before a new site started to load. That delay has been virtually eliminated by the upgrade, making my browser feel much quicker, especially when browsing rapidly through a lot of sites.
Click to view lwdesign's profile Member 462 posts since
Sep 28, 2005
35. Sep 30, 2006 2:33 PM in response to: MW Forums
Re: Mac OS X v10.4.8 improves networking, Finder
I always run Disk Utility and do a repair of permissions before and after every update. I have both a MacBook Pro 17" and a dual 2GHz PowerMac G5 tower and have never had a problem with an Apple update. The only thing that has been a problem is using Adobe's Creative Suite under Rosetta, with some weird problems that won't be fixed until Adobe releases CS3, although I'm interested to see if the numerics problems with CS2 are affected by the new Apple update.
Click to view gochugogi's profile New Member 3 posts since
Jul 9, 2006
36. Sep 30, 2006 6:54 PM in response to: hautster
Re: Mac OS X v10.4.8 improves networking, Finder
OS 10.47 crippled my old G4 dual: my IOgear USB 2 card only worked intermittently, USB 2 hubs were unusable and it crashed during sleep, so I downgraded to OS 10.46 and all was well. However I tried OS 10.48 on my office G4 and no USB or sleep issues, so I installed 10.48 on my G4 dual today and everything works including deep sleep , hubs and the USB 2 card.
Click to view Grapho's profile Enthusiast 1,263 posts since
Aug 30, 2004
37. Sep 30, 2006 8:25 PM in response to: Nobody
Re: Mac OS X v10.4.8 improves networking, Finder
Quote:<hr />
A similar situation existed when PPC chips were first used. Your assumption that a carefully designed installer cannot successfully distinguish between multiple configurations and install only those files that are needed for the specific configuration in question, may well be an overly simplified view.

<hr />

This is not my assumption, it is yours. Intel, Power PC G3, G4 and G5 all with deferent components including USB 2 on some models. All sort of video circuitry including the cheep on board Intel stuff. I never stated that an installer can not distinguish one configuration from another, what I am stating is that Apple has never had to deal with two processor architectures like it is now. Yes they had the PPC transition, but once system 8 once announced, the old 6800 processors where abandoned. Now even Leopard will have to keep compatibility with PPC. You don't think this is easy, do you? Your fixing permissions before installing is rubbish.

This is from an article they published here at Macworld
Quote:<hr />
Do I need to repair permissions before installing an update to Mac OS X?
In a word, no. When you install a Mac OS X update, youre required to authenticateprovide an admin-level username and passwordin order for the installation to proceed. When you authenticate, youre allowing the installer to run with the equivalent of root access. What this means is that the installer is not constrained by Mac OS Xs permissions systemit ignores the normal restrictions of file and folder permissions. This is necessary for Installer to be able to update Mac OS X, but, more important for the current discussion, it also means that incorrect permissions shouldnt cause problems with the installation.

The only real benefit to repairing permissions before a Mac OS X update is that if you do so, then immediately install the update, and then repair permissions again immediately afterwards, you can be pretty confident that any permissions issues that are found are a result of the update. But at that point youve also fixed the problem(s), so the pre-install repair provided you with little more than academic knowledge.

<hr />
Click to view NeoX's profile Member 464 posts since
Aug 27, 2004
38. Oct 1, 2006 12:55 PM in response to: Grapho
Re: Mac OS X v10.4.8 improves networking, Finder
Quote:<hr />
Your fixing permissions before installing is rubbish.

<hr />


Really? I have personally seen stability problems disappear with repairing permissions and that is certainly not rubbish. Think about it, if certain system files have the wrong permissions, unexpected behavior could ensue.

I agree with others and still say that most issues generated after an OS maint. update are user or system errors. Think about it, when was the last time you seen Apple re-release a point update because of so many issues? If it truly is a problem with the update, why are only a relatively small percentage of users having problems? Wouldn't most users be affected?

It is really easy to blame Apple for shoddy updates, but in my years of Mac use I have rarely, if ever, had a major issue with an update. Of course I have seen a bug or two here and there but certainly nothing major. More likely the blame is that under certain circumstances an update might show an error in hardware, or 3rd party utilities/drivers/hacks that were not apparent before.

Since Apple rarely re-releases these types of updates, how do all the issues eventually fade away? For most I would wager that they are redoing their systems or trying to isolate the real reason that their system is failing...

You can't go wrong with this approach, as it can't hurt:

1. Verify Drive
2. Repair Permissions
3. Reboot
4. Install Combo Updater
5. Reboot
6. Repair Permissions
7. Reboot

Cheers,
Click to view d00d's profile Macworld Editorial 12,136 posts since
Apr 24, 2001
39. Oct 1, 2006 8:57 PM in response to: NeoX
Re: Mac OS X v10.4.8 improves networking, Finder
Quote:<hr />
1. Verify Drive
2. Repair Permissions
3. Reboot
4. Install Combo Updater
5. Reboot
6. Repair Permissions
7. Reboot

<hr />
No, even better:
1. Repair Permissions
2. Verify Drive
3. Repair Permissions
4. Reboot
5. Repair Permissions
6. Install Combo Updater
7. Repair Permissions
8. Reboot
9. Repair Permissions
10. Reboot
11. Repair Permissions
12. Install Combo Updater
13. Repair Permissions
14. Reboot
15. Repair Permissions
16. Reboot

Sounds good because it doesn't hurt, right?
Click to view Grapho's profile Enthusiast 1,263 posts since
Aug 30, 2004
40. Oct 1, 2006 10:49 PM in response to: NeoX
Re: Mac OS X v10.4.8 improves networking, Finder
Read my post. You make it sound like a said never to fix permissions. I only stated that it is NOT necessary to do it before installing the update!!!
I don't agree with you or the others. Explain why then my Mac started to have intermittent problems finding a mouse at start up. My only fix was to disconnect the mouse and reconnected until it started working. It all started after 10.4.7, it did get fixed with 10.4.8 apparently. Also why do so many MacBook users started to have colorful vertical lines at startup, again after installing 10.4.7. Did all of them preform the same user error that caused this. Unlikely. My point is that Apple is having to deal with a plethora of configurations that back all the way to the G3 and they include all the new Intel Macs. You think that having to keep compatible with all this is easy? I have also used Apple for years, I have also experience little if any problems, but this MacBook is changing my opinion very quickly. I installed the update on my G4, but I will hold off for a week on the MacBook, just in case.
Click to view dino_russ's profile New Member 5 posts since
Nov 19, 2001
41. Oct 2, 2006 9:26 AM in response to: OM_user
Re: Mac OS X v10.4.8 improves networking, Finder
Quote:<hr />
A doube restart? Were you updating from 10.4.5 or earlier? The 10.4.6 update was the 1st one that caused a double restart (as far as Tiger updates are concerned) so anyone who hasn't jumped to 10.4.6 or higher would get the double reboot. 10.4.6 was a dog of an update, so I imagine there are probably a few folks who haven't bothered to update since it came out.

<hr />


The double restart is part of the upgrade: The following link (About the Apple update 10.4.8 delta: http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum=304200
from Apple states:
Quote:<hr />
After installing the delta version of this update on an Intel-based Mac, the computer will restart two times--the first restart after installing this update may take several minutes; please allow it to complete.

<hr />


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Click to view hagen's profile New Member 138 posts since
Mar 15, 2005
42. Oct 2, 2006 9:53 AM in response to: MW Forums
Broke Disk Utility mounting of .dmg
had to reboot back into 10.4.7 in order to open and mount .dmg files.

Luckily I always have a bootable drive with an older snapshot of my hd.
Click to view MacPCJustCreate's profile Member 667 posts since
Sep 1, 2004
43. Oct 2, 2006 11:05 AM in response to: MW Forums
Mac OS X 10.4.4 is working fine on...
...my PowerBook G4. I see no reason to update.

I used to update all the time. I have used 10.1, 10.2, 10.3, and 10.4 and did not have any problems with many 10.1 and 10.2 updates. Once I got to 10.3 I had at least two updates that hosed my system -- Archive and Install with Preserve User Settings restored to the previous good state. Same thing in 10.4 on the PowerBook G4.

If my system is stable I am now very reticent to install updates and if I do I pray to the computer gods that things will be OK after the restart. All of these problems on Vanilla systems -- no system hacks or any unusual system "extensions" at all -- I still have all of the applications in the "Applications" folder even.
Click to view lkrupp's profile New Member 170 posts since
Dec 30, 2004
44. Oct 2, 2006 11:59 AM in response to: MacPCJustCreate
Re: Mac OS X 10.4.4 is working fine on...
"I see no reason to update."

Your only problem with this approach is that you are leaving yourself wide open to security issues fixed since 10.4.4 was released. You are also depriving yourself of real performance/reliability/stability improvements made to Tiger.

But each his own.