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76 Replies Last post: Aug 21, 2007 1:33 AM by KendallGelner   Go to original post 1 2 3 4 5 6 Previous Next
Click to view edmetric's profile Member 451 posts since
Apr 29, 2006
30. Aug 14, 2007 6:33 PM in response to: griffman
Re: First Look: iMovie '08
Quote:<hr />
Apple has made it clear they want the "prosumer" video editors to step up to FCE or FCP.

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Don't forget that the new generation of editors trained on iMovie '08 have to double purchase by upgrading to "prosumer" hardware too.

Do you think a person could develop a high enough skill level using iMovie '08 that would allow them to step up to FCE? It doesn't seem likely to me. So, is there a customer target or is this just a blunder (given that iMovie '06 was added back in so quickly)? What's the editing growth path for both hardware and software?
Click to view macwilf's profile Member 198 posts since
Jun 6, 2005
31. Aug 14, 2007 6:48 PM in response to: MW Forums
Re: First Look: iMovie '08
It's not long ago I bought my first and cheap video camera and began to use iMovie'05 which is the one I have. I was waiting for '08 to upgrade but now I really don't know. OK, so I get iMovie'06 but then, perhaps I should only look for iLife'06 at amazon.com?
What bothers me most is the lack of audio-controls. But looking at the demo and reading comments, it doesn't seem that easy to edit it in details as earlier.
Yes, I have been considering FCE but it is a steep step to climb, economically.

Sometimes I wonder if not people at Apple suffer from a lack of grip with the kind of reality most people have to struggle with? Most of us can't just run out and buy the newest and the best camcorder and when we're tired of the quick'n'easy videoediting for the YouTube-generation, we can't order a version of FCE just like that.
iLife has been a boost to the creativity of a lot of people and what has been most compelling with all of the applications in it, is that it doesn't take much to get into them. And then, when you've found out the basics, you discover more and more things you can do.
Schools have been mentioned. Grandma, too, but believe me, if grandma was interested, she would rather use iMovie as it was than throw together something for YouTube. You see, granny ain't interested in UTube, y'all.
So this isn't for granny, that's for sure.

I've also become a little worried as I have watched various Stevenotes. The man seems to be more and more obsessed with the kitschy, family-cosy stuff you can do with iPhoto and iMovie, and less concentrated about the creativity in itself. Is that because he loves it himself or does it reflects his views of his customers? In any case, that worries me a bit.

If Appleproducts are going to be developed more and more in the direction of something-for-the-dummies and Linux is for nerds only and Windows is just that thing you can't avoid but seldom choose, what is left for the rest of us?

Eh, Steve?
Click to view MacBrogdon's profile New Member 91 posts since
Apr 12, 2007
32. Aug 14, 2007 6:58 PM in response to: MW Forums
Re: First Look: iMovie '08
There is a very easy way that Apple can fix this problem for the short term:

MAKE AN UPDATE TO iMOVIE'06 THAT WILL MAKE IT POSSIBLE TO IMPORT iMOVIE'08 PROJECTS INTO IT WHILE KEEPING THE CLIPS AND AUDIO TRACKS SEPARATE!

If Apple would just do this then all would be well. I can do quick and dirty editing on '08 and then import it (or a copy of it) into '06 and polish it up.

As someone else said, in it current state '08 is really just a glorified YouTube movie maker.
Click to view iLifer08's profile New Member 2 posts since
Aug 14, 2007
33. Aug 14, 2007 7:07 PM in response to: TxTom
Re: First Look: iMovie '08
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Without precise frame accurate editing, this is totally useless to me.

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Depending on what you mean by this, it may still be possible to edit frame-precise. This is actually one of the misconceptions floating around about iMovie '08. It's just not intuitive if you come from iMovieHD. I just posted a walk-through on how to do it, having just figured it out myself.

http://imovie08.blogspot.com/2007/08/how-to-make-frame-precise-edits.html

(Disclaimer: This is my blog and I do put ads on it.)

Aaron
Click to view afternoonsand's profile New Member 13 posts since
Dec 20, 2003
34. Aug 14, 2007 7:55 PM in response to: MW Forums
Re: First Look: iMovie '08
In the almost 10 years since Steve Jobs returned to Apple he has rarely made a misstep in steadily improving the Mac and Apple related products, software and hardware but in this event he made at least two critical errors. He first was the removal of a wireless keyboard with number pad and the second was iMovie8 as a replacement for iMovie6 HD. I believe it would have been fine to have introduced the new product while tuning the old iMovie but this was more than a disappointment. Certainly the drop in support for iMovie6 HD and its features the most critical. I hope someone at Apple has a V8 moment.
Click to view icerabbit's profile Enthusiast 1,019 posts since
Mar 28, 2002
35. Aug 14, 2007 8:16 PM in response to: MW Forums
Re: First Look: iMovie '08
The more I look at the online coverage about iMovie '08, the more I think: iTube

And, that's not a good thing for iMovie. Don't get me wrong, I very much like the quick access to clips as shown in the SJ demo ... but the omissions?


PM G5 DP 2.5 - G4 Cube - G3 iMac - iPod 4G & 5.5G
Click to view whitedog's profile Enthusiast 989 posts since
Aug 9, 2004
36. Aug 14, 2007 10:19 PM in response to: MW Forums
Re: First Look: iMovie '08
There's an old saying, "if it ain't broke, don't fix it." Steve Jobs just turned that on it's head: If it ain't broke, break it. IMovie 7 is a solution in search of a problem. Steve, who usually has an uncanny ear for what consumers want and need, was unaccountably tone deaf on this one. "Let's take an application that millions of Mac users know and love and kill it off. The new Mac users we are going after are too dumb to use iMovie HD so we will give them an app a retarded gorilla could use! Our current users can like it or lump it."

I wouldn't hold my breath waiting for Steve to see the arrogant error of his ways. Remember how long he hung with that stupid hockey puck mouse? It took him even longer to realize almost any multi-button mouse was superior to Apple's one button blind spot. He's brilliant but he's also stubborn and exceedingly reluctant to admit when he's made a mistake.

Since Apple is censoring their own forums in order to cut off the torrent of complaints the new iMovie has generated, we are left to vent our dissatisfaction on independent forums like this one.

Maybe the mainstream media will catch on to the unusual response of Mac users to this "upgrade." Hopefully, Macworld will take notice when they do their full review. In recent years Apple has gotten used to good press and, as their decision with iMovie demonstrates, their confidence has been replaced, in some instances at least, with arrogance; a little solid criticism in the media could provide them with an overdue colonic.


Don't anthropomorphize computers - They hate that.
Click to view timefly's profile New Member 17 posts since
Jun 15, 2006
37. Aug 14, 2007 10:11 PM in response to: MW Forums
Re: First Look: iMovie '08
Okay, I realise many have complaint about this new iMovie. I don't know how many try it, but I did.

I use iMovie for sometime in the last few years, the program has many limitations where I found myself always turns to FCP to do even a simple edit. The only reason I'll import footage into iMovie is iMovie is not that selective to video source quality so it can take it and work with it. But then it's not that intuitive, and request trips to the menu to get functions that should be easily done through the timeline. Not ot mention iMovie is pretty slow.

But the new iMovie may be very different, but I think the way to do editing is very direct, make a lot more sense for a simple edit which exactly what iMovie suppose to be. The speed of the program is amazing.

Scrubbing through footage and choose segment of the clip in this manner is very smart.

I really like this change. It's really what iMovie should be.
Click to view montgomery_burns's profile Enthusiast 854 posts since
Aug 31, 2004
38. Aug 14, 2007 11:05 PM in response to: timefly
Re: First Look: iMovie '08
Quote:<hr />
But the new iMovie may be very different, but I think the way to do editing is very direct, make a lot more sense for a simple edit which exactly what iMovie suppose to be.

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For simple, featureless editing, iMovie 06 already had the Magic iMovie feature:

"If you have a simple video or home movie, you can use the "Magic iMovie" feature to have iMovie HD import your video and compose a movie for you. You can specify the title of the movie and the kind of transitions you want between scenes, and have iMovie HD add music. With the click of a button, iMovie HD imports and creates your entire movie."

Given that iMovie 06 already had this kind of simplistic, featureless, nonfunctional movie creation, I don't see why Apple had to ruin the rest of the program for everyone else who wants the extra features.
Click to view Skylim's profile New Member 6 posts since
Oct 22, 2001
39. Aug 15, 2007 1:00 AM in response to: MW Forums
Re: First Look: iMovie '08
In case you're tempted to download the free iMovie HD 6 without buying iLife 08, note that:

"The installer checks to see if iLife '08 is installed, so it's not a gift to owners of earlier versions of iMovie." (from Tidbits)
Click to view hillstones's profile Member 394 posts since
Sep 18, 2004
40. Aug 15, 2007 1:45 AM in response to: MW Forums
Re: First Look: iMovie '08
No timeline, no audio editing, no DVD chapter markers? iMovie 08 and iLife 08 should be boycotted. iMovie was already a simple program to use. My 12 year old nephew figured it out on his own and has already edited and created numerous DVD's from a MiniDV camcorder.

Based on these major omissions, I will avoid iLife '08. Sorry, but the future is not YouTube or AppleTV. No one wants to watch crappy resolution videos on YouTube, unless it is stupid people doing stupid things. When I edit a video I shoot, the purpose is to make a DVD for final viewing on my living room TV. I am not uploading my videos to YouTube and I am not watching them on an iPhone, that I also refuse to buy. Since flexible editing and DVD creation is no longer possible with iMovie 08, I will never upgrade again.

Whew, glad I saved myself $79! Apple really dropped the ball on that one. Dumbing down an already simple program to use was a big mistake.

Let's hope iMovie '08 suddenly disappears like other Apple blunders: The round mouse, Power Mac G4 Cube, Copeland, Mac IIvx, LC II, PowerBook 150 & 5300 series, etc.
Click to view wired35's profile New Member 8 posts since
Jun 13, 2007
41. Aug 15, 2007 3:15 AM in response to: hillstones
Re: First Look: iMovie '08
Well, what's left to say other than I agree with just about everything said here. I haven't upgraded yet, and now I'm not sure I will either. Sure, it's nice to upload a 5 minute clip to .mac for family and friends, I do it all the time with ease in iMovie 6. But these 5 minute clips are only for quick sharing and do nothing for me in the long-term as to archiving my videos and making nice creative professional looking DVD's from all of my tapes. The main reason I use iMovie is to create DVD's with iDVD. Being able to share a 5 minute clip of them on .mac is just a very nice side benefit in my opinion, and is NOT the main purpose of iMovie. Apple could have very easily enhanced iMovie 6 to have better .mac/youtube features and still keep it in it's current form.

Mini-DV tapes and DVD's ARE NOT DEAD. I'm sitting on a pile of about 30 tapes taken over the last few years. As someone else said earlier in this discussion, I too am about 3 yrs behind in my editing, but not because iMovie HD is too slow or cumbersome to do it with, it's actually very easy to use. I just take too much video to keep up with. If I had a hard-drive or memory-stick video camera, my only option would be to store all of my video memories on an external hard drive when the camera fills up, and I'd probably have about 10 external hard drives and hope none of them ever bite the dust before I get around to making a DVD. I just don't understand the trend toward hard-drive & memory stick cameras, unless you just don't care about editing and want to quickly dump your video to DVD's. But since I wouldn't do that, I'd still be 3 yrs behind and not have the security of DV tapes waiting in the wings. If you're on vacation and fill up your hard-drive camera, then what? I just think they're dumb. Sorry, I digressed.

Anyway, the fact is I will use tapes, and I do want to continue to edit and convert them to high-quality DVD's to preserve and share and pass on to my kids. I want to view these DVD's on my living room TV, and share the memories with family and friends rather than huddling around a computer to watch them. I need DVD chapters, audio editing, timelines, etc. iMovie 6 and iDVD 6 were (and still are) perfect for me, and I don't see the need to start over rather than just continue improving these 2 great programs. How disappointing.

By the way, here's an email address to send your gripes to: sjobs@apple.com.
Click to view montgomery_burns's profile Enthusiast 854 posts since
Aug 31, 2004
42. Aug 15, 2007 4:05 AM in response to: behindthecamera
Re: First Look: iMovie '08
Quote:<hr />
Common arguments from the Apple apologists:

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You forgot the other one: "If you don't like it, then buy a PC".
Click to view montgomery_burns's profile Enthusiast 854 posts since
Aug 31, 2004
43. Aug 15, 2007 4:12 AM in response to: mjvoice
Re: First Look: iMovie '08
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Apple is positioning iMovie for HD-editing, and I wouldn't be surprised if this is the last version of iDVD - which should shortly be replaced by iBRD.

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I don't see what the transition to HD video has to do with the omission of features in iMovie. It seems like everything in iMovie 06 and iDVD apply equally to Blu-ray, the only difference being the higher video resolution. And don't Blu-ray dics still use menus and chapters like regular DVD's?
Click to view Luke_Macwalker's profile New Member 150 posts since
Sep 1, 2004
44. Aug 15, 2007 5:56 AM in response to: mjvoice
Re: First Look: iMovie '08
Quote:<hr />
You cannot do "frame accurate" editing in mpeg4/h.264AVC streams, because so many of the frames are "predicted" from earlier/later frames.

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That is not true: try it in QuickTime Player (with QuickTime Pro) and you will see that you can move forward or backward one frame at a time, cut, copy, and paste at the frame level even in H.264.

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mpeg4/h.264avc is designed to give the best -viewing- quality at the lowest bitrate, -not- to allow ease of editing.

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True, but the burden lies on the software developer's shoulders. You need a fast machine to do the forward or backward decoding so that the user can edit in real time, and it's a bit of a pain to reencode only parts of a video in H.264 with B- and I-frames, but it's definitely doable. I know because I had to do it, and also because QuickTime Player can do it.