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53 Replies Last post: May 29, 2008 5:14 PM by Windows2Apples   Go to original post 1 2 3 4 Previous Next
Click to view Jarmo's profile New Member 95 posts since
Oct 20, 2004
30. Apr 15, 2008 12:50 AM in response to: Macworld
Re: Psystar sells a $399 Mac clone
Interesting to see what happens next.

I've been advocating a miditower Mac since... forever i think.
If this was 100% more expensive and from Apple, It'd be great value.

Don't mention the high quality Apple parts. Apple has great design,
but the parts and construction come from the cheapest bidder.


iBook G4/1,2, iMac 2,13, Athlon 3800+, PS2, Gamecube, PS3
Click to view macwilf's profile Member 187 posts since
Jun 6, 2005
31. Apr 15, 2008 3:46 AM in response to: Macworld
Re: Psystar sells a $399 Mac clone
It seems like most comments are US-centric. The average income in the US is higher than in most, if not all, other countries and to me it also seems like Appleʼs pricing is US-centric. I do not know how seriously they regard the global market or if they just cater to the absolute top level of this, to the few who can afford computers which are even more expensive outside the US, due to local taxes etc. Maybe they are content with the situation as it is, but then they cannot expect to increase the global market share by much, compared to the success in the US. That it still increases, speaks much for the high quality of their products.

The iMac and the Mini are the products many of us who actually live by our Macs outside the US, often see as the top models we can afford. As these are not very expandable, one has to buy a new machine to replace the old with certain intervals.

I had a dual 450 ghz G4 and expanded it as much as I could, with more RAM, a better graphics card and a PCI-card to get more ports etc., but in the end it was too slow, of course. I gave it to my ex and her son and it is still in daily use, though.

Anyway, a mid-range tower would be gefündenes freßen as they say in German:)
As for this tower mentioned here, it would be a nice alternative even if it would cost the equivalent of 700 dollars or more, because you can actually expand it.
There are those here who can afford a Pro tower as well, but I would think the number who can, are fewer than in the US.

I donʼt know what strategy Apple has in store for a situation if the global market share should reach the same level as in the US or even higher. Would there not come a point when it would be difficult to maintain the high standard, keeping control over the software as well as the hardware, and they would be forced to change the strategy in some way or another?

Just my two øres worth - and that isnʼt much!
Click to view Jarmo's profile New Member 95 posts since
Oct 20, 2004
32. Apr 15, 2008 5:06 AM in response to: macwilf
Re: Psystar sells a $399 Mac clone
US-centric is right.

The "default" MacPro is currently 2,499 euros in finland (including vat.).
At current exchange rates that amounts to 3.957 USD.

$4000 for the base tower, you should see why an option starting at $399 sounds appealing.


iBook G4/1,2, iMac 2,13, Athlon 3800+, PS2, Gamecube, PS3
Click to view mdawson's profile Old Hand 2,836 posts since
Aug 31, 2004
33. Apr 15, 2008 5:13 AM in response to: dreyfus
Re: Psystar sells a $399 Mac clone
Where in any of my posts do I state or insinuate that people buy laptops because they are all-in-ones? What I did state is that most people—the non-techie masses—have little to no issue with a system being an all-in-one as the sales of laptops and ten-year success of the iMac would indicate. Yes, many people buy laptops for mobility, but many more buy laptops because they are compact, non-intrusive systems and can be easily tucked away when not in use. Desktops
generally take over the space they occupy and cannot be easily set aside when space is needed for something else.

The decision to purchase a laptop has as much to do with overall convenience and compactness as it does with portability these days, particularly as many laptops are just as powerful as most desktops sans workstation-class pro systems. I know a number of people that own laptops that (almost) never leave their home, but chose that form factor because it allows them to have a computer without the need for a dedicated space. The Mac mini comes closest to that in terms of a true desktop and was initially designed for that purpose as well as being a Switcher testbed.

Simply put, for many people today, the fact that a desktop is an all-in-one design is not an issue. The average computer user can have their needs served by an iMac for many years because the average user is not a technophile that obsesses over hardware upgrades. The people that do take issue with all-in-one systems are those that would be limited by such a computer and IT types that are always worried about maintenance logistics. Corporate IT actually has less credibility with the anti-AIO argument as laptops, which are again all-in-ones, have become the primary work computers for an ever increasing number of corporate types over the past 5+ years. So in the business world, repairing/replacing an all-in-one desktop is no more or less a hassle than dealing with the increasing number of laptops in corporate use.

As to fewer wires, I never made that argument as I find it to carry little weight, as an all-in-one desktop only eliminates the need for a display cable and a second power cord. Please do keep other people’s point of argument separate from mine. Lastly, please reply to the poster with whom you are in discussion and not the story post.


“Cannot run out of time. There is infinite time. You are finite. Zathras is finite. This is wrong tool.” 2.3GHz Power Mac G5/4GB/500GB HDD/OS X 10.4.11/30-inch ACD, 60GB iPod (Color)
Click to view folklore's profile Member 391 posts since
Aug 9, 2005
34. Apr 15, 2008 6:39 AM in response to: dreyfus
Re: Psystar sells a $399 Mac clone
dreyfus wrote:

If I recall the last quarterly report correctly, desktop sales have increased as much as the laptop sales did. Apple needs more variety to gain more market share. The insistence on AIO designs and crippled Minis is a failure, not offering a conventional computer below 5,000 bucks (Mac Pro plus AppleCare plus sufficient HDs plus sufficient RAM plus GPU upgrade plus display) is a failure. It is as wrong as insisting on one-button mice for ages, as wrong as SJs comment that nobody wants video on a MP3 player and that nobody wants to rent movies. They (Apple) are good, yes, I fully agree. They are by no means error-free.

If sales are increasing, how is the current strategy a "failure"?

Apple's core market is home users. Apple has never been much for the enterprise - which, as your post demonstrates, is where most of the legitimate need for a mid-tower Mac lies. We can argue about whether Apple should make more inroads into the enterprise, but a consumer-based focus has worked remarkably well for Apple over the past several years - it's been far from a "failure" by any measure (sales, stock price, etc).
Click to view MacPCJustCreate's profile Member 667 posts since
Sep 1, 2004
35. Apr 15, 2008 7:23 AM in response to: lwdesign
Re: Psystar sells a $399 Mac clone
Mid-Range Mac Tower (MIDRAMT): Yes Apple will offer this when "Hell Freezes Over". Like the Eagles reunion and subsequent live album "Hell Freezes Over" it may be a long time coming -- it took the Eagles 14 years and people have been asking for the Apple mid-range tower on this forum for at least 5 years, so maybe you only have 9 more years to wait if the Eagles timeframe hold up. Or one could just buy the machine today to get their work done in the present, be it Apple, Windows or Linux, and as Larry the Cable Guy says "Git 'Er Done".
Click to view MorrisTheCat's profile Member 165 posts since
Dec 14, 2007
36. Apr 15, 2008 7:32 AM in response to: KPO'M
Re: Psystar sells a $399 Mac clone
Also, whatever the company did to make it run OS X might run afoul of Apple's copyrights on its firmware.

I would say that will be their biggest problem, and Apple will likely find a way to stop this. We all know it takes more than just a box with an Intel roc, hd, mobo and ram in it to run OS X. If that's all it took, there'd be plenty of Wintel boxes running it right now. Yes, I know about the osx86 project and what they're doing, but I'm not sure if this company is using that information or some home grown method. We'll just have to sit back and see how Apple responds to this.

Concerning this as a whole, I really do wish Apple would come up with some mid range semi expandable tower at a lower price than the iMacs, but more powerful than the mini. Even if it were priced at $999, it would be a great product. There is a HUGE gap between these two models that is really disheartening to me. So in that respect, I can understand why Psystar is making this. (BTW, how is that name pronounced? It looks too much like shyster to me for comfort)
Click to view MacPCJustCreate's profile Member 667 posts since
Sep 1, 2004
37. Apr 15, 2008 7:39 AM in response to: dreyfus
Re: Psystar sells a $399 Mac clone

"We cannot use the current iMacs because of the glossy screens (no discussions needed - they will not be approved)"

Yes it is unfortunate that Apple has gone along with the rest of the inane PC industry and offers GLOSSY screens only on certain Macintosh models. Personally I abhor the glossy screens (just my preference) and that is why Ihave a new MacBook Pro with the matte finish screen.

BTW I love the multitouch trackpadon the new MacBook Pro, especially two finger scrolling which make vertical and horizontal scrolling an absolute delight, pure genius on the trackpad features.

Click to view daneb's profile Member 489 posts since
Dec 1, 2006
38. Apr 15, 2008 7:50 AM in response to: Macworld
Re: Psystar sells a $399 Mac clone
"Virtualized" EFI? Hardware not supported by Apple? One Miami-based firm for technical support? I'm going to call their bluff. This is a joke--at least it should be. I for one hope to never see OS X or any Apple OS for sale by anyone but Apple. That's the whole idea of Apple computers in case anyone has forgotten: Hardware and software put together by one company. Full support of both. That's why it all works so well.


seven+ Take it, live it, give it. livesevenplus.com
Click to view zarmanto's profile Member 288 posts since
Feb 11, 2004
39. Apr 15, 2008 8:55 AM in response to: Macworld
Re: Psystar sells a $399 Mac clone
That's actually quite amusing... if you read this page: http://www.psystar.com/openmac_osx86_compatible.html

... and then this page:

http://www.psystar.com/can_i_run_updates_on_my_openmac.html

...you'll quickly realize what they're really doing here. They're not even pretending to sell legitimately licensed computers which run the standard retail installation of Leopard -- in fact, they're actually freely admitting that their computers are "hackintosh" systems! In the second page noted above, it specifically states that some of Apple's updates are "non-safe" for installing on Psystar's Mac-clone -- and the reason is that some of Apple's updates will verify whether or not you're installing the software on legitimate Apple hardware, and disable the operating system if you're using a hackintosh.

I wouldn't buy one of those buggers for anything... but it is VERY interesting to see this company poking their finger in Apple's eye, and I'm looking forward to reading what happens next. ;-)


24" iMac: 2.33GHz Core2 Duo/2GB RAM/500GB HD/GeForce 7600 w/256MB VRAM | PPCMac: 1GHz G4 DP/768MB RAM/250GB HD | PC: AMD 3200/1GB RAM/250GB HD
Click to view rickcarl's profile Member 192 posts since
Feb 27, 2008
40. Apr 15, 2008 9:54 AM in response to: zarmanto
Re: Psystar sells a $399 Mac clone
I agree with z. There's no reason to think these boxes are functionally equivalent to a Mac. Perhaps Macworld will buy one and review it for us.
Click to view Steve_S's profile Enthusiast 1,021 posts since
Sep 9, 2004
41. Apr 15, 2008 10:17 AM in response to: Macworld
Re: Psystar sells a $399 Mac clone
I had a Mac clone (Power Computing) back in the day and would certainly consider it again if there were really viable options. This isn't one of them. Really, this is very much a "non story". Unless Apple chooses to or is legally forced to support clones, it's not going to happen. Even if someone was able to get their hardware to work properly with the current Mac OS (which is a big if and has yet to be verified), Apple has the ability to shut the door with the next point release. Apple also has the ability to modify future Apple hardware to make it more difficult to copy. In short, an investment in an unsupported clone would be a waste of money, no matter how cheap it is.
Click to view Schneb's profile Enthusiast 1,328 posts since
Dec 10, 2002
42. Apr 15, 2008 10:34 AM in response to: Jeter2Fan93
Re: Psystar sells a $399 Mac clone
You miss the point. I want to add extra USB ports, and no, hubs do not
work with my music keyboard or EyeTV Hybrid. I want more power than a
mini offers and ability to swap and upgrade drives without having to
use a myriad of external enclosures. Apple continues to upgrade the
MacBook, yet has not gotten it through their thick skulls that we want
a prosumer level, half-height MacPro!!
Click to view Schneb's profile Enthusiast 1,328 posts since
Dec 10, 2002
43. Apr 15, 2008 10:41 AM in response to: Gorthaur42
Re: Psystar sells a $399 Mac clone

I don't think that Apple clones are a good idea...

Remember PowerComputing? They were better than Apple's hardware so they pulled their license because they were outselling Apple's overpriced junk.

Click to view Steve_S's profile Enthusiast 1,021 posts since
Sep 9, 2004
44. Apr 15, 2008 1:18 PM in response to: Schneb
Re: Psystar sells a $399 Mac clone
Schneb wrote:
Remember PowerComputing? They were better than Apple's hardware so they pulled their license because they were outselling Apple's overpriced junk.

Yes, that was definitely true at the time. However, much has changed. That was in the pre-Jobs era, where they had too many products, they were beige boxes that were under powered and over priced. Pretty much where the Apple stereotypes come from. The Jobs/Ives designed products are generally best in class, yet competitive in price. Especially at the high end. Apple doesn't compete at all for the very low end market.