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20 Replies Last post: Feb 3, 2009 8:28 AM by VdkaShaker   1 2 Previous Next
Click to view Macworld's profile News & Columns Bot 11,211 posts since
Nov 30, 2007
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Nov 20, 2008 11:01 AM

The perfect storm of data loss: a cautionary tale

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Click to view flybynight's profile Enthusiast 835 posts since
Jul 21, 2006
1. Nov 20, 2008 11:45 AM in response to: Macworld
Re: The perfect storm of data loss: a cautionary tale
I've heard of a lot of people who fall into that trap with iDisk. The problem is that with iDisk set to auto-sync, it's not really a backup unless you can keep them from talking to each other. Once they do, they are identical, which sucks if the identical-ness is corrupt or missing. I didn't know about the Time Machine issues, but I guess that makes sense. I tell my clients to treat iDisk as a separate disk - that is, don't think about it living on your hard drive if it is on iDisk. Have a copy in your user documents folder (or wherever on your local drive that isn't iDisk) AND in iDisk - then you actually have 2 separate copies. And Time Machine will grab the local file successfully. Either way, sorry to hear about your loss!
Click to view khurt's profile New Member 25 posts since
Apr 2, 2008
2. Nov 20, 2008 12:24 PM in response to: Macworld
Re: The perfect storm of data loss: a cautionary tale
I have a MobileMe account and after reading articles like this I wonder "Why?!". I have been using DropBox on my Mac and Windows XP for a few weeks. The things you expected to do with iDisk are all doable with DropBox.
Click to view khurt's profile New Member 25 posts since
Apr 2, 2008
3. Nov 20, 2008 12:27 PM in response to: flybynight
Re: The perfect storm of data loss: a cautionary tale
This is also the reason why I get upset with people who suggest RAID1 as a backup solution. They argue that if one drive fails they can recover from the second drive. My argument is that if data corroption/deletion on drive one get replicated to drive two.
Click to view tonypatti's profile New Member 6 posts since
Feb 1, 2008
4. Nov 20, 2008 12:36 PM in response to: Macworld
Re: The perfect storm of data loss: a cautionary tale
Backing up. Archiving. Saving versions of old files. I can barely get my head around these concepts, and I've been backing up files for almost 20 years.

The idea of a auto-sync backup bothers me a great deal, since the kind of damage Dan describes has happened to me before - replacing a file with a corrupt version. This is why, god forbid, I see no use in Time Machine, as much as I applaud Apple for giving it to those who don't back up manually like myself.

I'm lucky in that I have one huge video project to work on at a time, and manually managing the backup of that project is time-consuming but simple.

There is something fundamentally unsound about automatic synching, in my mind. I lost all of my contacts when the MobileMe fiasco was evolving. Now I've got a pdf file on my desktop that I saved after a restore. What a joke, yet it would have saved me ten thousand emails begging for contact info I used to have.
Click to view folklore's profile Enthusiast 696 posts since
Aug 9, 2005
5. Nov 20, 2008 12:46 PM in response to: tonypatti
Re: The perfect storm of data loss: a cautionary tale
tonypatti wrote:

The idea of a auto-sync backup bothers me a great deal, since the kind of damage Dan describes has happened to me before - replacing a file with a corrupt version. This is why, god forbid, I see no use in Time Machine, as much as I applaud Apple for giving it to those who don't back up manually like myself.

Time Machine backups are a totally different animal than iDisk syncing. The difference is between a "backup" and "synchronization". TM backups are unidirectional - your files get copied to an archive. When there's a conflict, a new version of the file gets saved. iDisk syncing is bidirectional. When there's a conflict, the most recent version of the file wins.

Basically, had Dan found a corrupt version of the file on a TM'ed hard drive, he could have gone through his TM backups until he found the uncorrupted version of the file (assuming he kept backups going that far back).

Click to view cordobatim's profile New Member 16 posts since
Feb 29, 2008
6. Nov 20, 2008 12:48 PM in response to: Macworld
Re: The perfect storm of data loss: a cautionary tale
I've had a MobileMe (dotMac) account for years. I've always felt like it was about to become what it should be, yet for me it's always been a disaster waiting to happen. Example: I change the theme on my blog in iWeb, and every comment gets lost. No, they aren't stored anywhere. No there's not a backup.

It seems to me that Apple either needs to decide to really make MobileMe work, or send it the way of eWorld.
Click to view folklore's profile Enthusiast 696 posts since
Aug 9, 2005
7. Nov 20, 2008 12:56 PM in response to: Macworld
Re: The perfect storm of data loss: a cautionary tale
I used to keep all of my current working documents on my iDisk. Just before the MobileMe transition, I moved these critical files off the iDisk because I knew there was a potential for problems. I've still not migrated back to the iDisk, and it sounds like I've been unintentionally wise to do so.

But I do like having a copy of my most important files on my iDisk. It's another layer of backup security for me. I have my Time Machine backups plus a copy on the iDisk. I could lose my laptop and have my house burn down on the same day and yet still have the most important files I need to get work done.

Lately, I've been using Chronosync to accomplish this. Basically, I work directly with the files on my hard drive. Once an hour, Chronosync copies my ~/Documents folder to my iDisk. It then syncs in the background. I imagine I could have the same problem and Dan had, but I'd have TM backups of the files from my hard disk that I could go back to if necessary. And, if a file that's in use gets copied to my iDisk, the next hour that it's not in use, it gets copied to the iDisk again anyway.
Click to view maflynn's profile Enthusiast 1,114 posts since
Jan 26, 2002
8. Nov 20, 2008 1:01 PM in response to: Macworld
Re: The perfect storm of data loss: a cautionary tale

I'm generally not a trusting person and to that end, I don't trust any company, apple google or the evil empire (microsoft) to keep my data safe on their servers. I use idisk as a repository to hold documents that I want accessible when I'm not on my mac. I do all of the editting (and backing up) on my local disk and tm machine volumes.

I think this issue is the skeleton in the closet for many people relying on "cloud" computing. Its my data and I'm taking responsibility to ensure I have a backup.


nonetheless its an eye opening article.

Click to view macreader's profile New Member 19 posts since
Aug 2, 2005
9. Nov 20, 2008 1:16 PM in response to: Macworld
Re: The perfect storm of data loss: a cautionary tale
Pardon me, but it seems that putting the primary file of an active database on idisk is like imagining that idisk is a database server, which it's not. I'm astounded that this scheme didn't fail in the first week.
Click to view alansky's profile Enthusiast 701 posts since
Jul 14, 2004
10. Nov 20, 2008 1:54 PM in response to: khurt
Re: The perfect storm of data loss: a cautionary tale
This is also the reason why I get upset with people who suggest RAID1 as a backup solution. They argue that if one drive fails they can recover from the second drive. My argument is that if data corroption/deletion on drive one get replicated to drive two. --Khurt

True enough, but isn't this the risk you take with any single backup solution? The only way to guard against over-writing a working file with a corrupted version of the same file is to use Time Machine or some other backup method that makes consecutive redundant backups of all your files.
Click to view darthkt's profile New Member 3 posts since
Apr 11, 2008
11. Nov 20, 2008 3:58 PM in response to: Macworld
Re: The perfect storm of data loss: a cautionary tale
And in terms of file corruption: it points to the wonders of hard copy. A pain to file and keep up with, but better than gold when the irreplaceable file goes zero k. All that is hindsight, and my condolences on the lost files.
Click to view gandhi's profile New Member 30 posts since
Feb 12, 2008
12. Nov 20, 2008 5:17 PM in response to: Macworld
Re: The perfect storm of data loss: a cautionary tale
what is so shameful about that is that they use data backup as a key selling point for mobile me. What a crock!
New Member 32 posts since
Nov 29, 2006
13. Nov 20, 2008 6:30 PM in response to: Macworld
Re: The perfect storm of data loss: a cautionary tale
I officially ditched iDisk (and all of mobileme) 2 days ago. I'm just sick of it. Way to many sync errors. I now have also moved to a low bandwidth part of the world, so it just didn't make sense to continue to pay for a service that didn't work.
Click to view ffistometer's profile New Member 56 posts since
Aug 14, 2007
14. Nov 21, 2008 7:23 AM in response to: gandhi
Re: The perfect storm of data loss: a cautionary tale
That's backup as in a second copy of a file way way Way WAY away from the original copy, therefore not a "crock" at all.

A file on Apple iDisk is much safer than a file on a hard drive attached to your Mac (i.e. Time Machine) as if there's a fire and your Mac's wiped out, your Time Machine hard drive will probably be wiped out with it, won't it?

I'm sorry but anyone who relies on a single backup copy of a REALLY important file on any type of media, thinking it's safe that way really is fooling themselves.


I feel sorry for the author of the original story, but please people, as someone who's been dealing with peoples lost data for 20-odd years, MULTIPLE COPIES ON MULTIPLE FORMATS!

What iDisk REALLY enables you to do is have multiple copies in multiple formats ON MULTIPLE SITES effortlessly, hardly “crock” at all Gandhi if you understand how to use it.

Don't RELY on the technology to make it simple for you to maintain 1 copy on what you perceive as a total incorruptible medium that's backed up 1 type of backup medium. You're living in a fool’s paradise. MULTILPE COPIES ON MULTIPLE FORMATS!


Then all you need is a bit of discipline to keep the copies regularly updated